As someone who is somewhat grug-brained, I am constantly confused as to why I should prefer this solution to software centralization than running, say, a local Kubernetes Cluster and having all my Services/Dependencies exist on my private cloud.
I also am not sure about the “Martian, Good; Ball of Mud, Bad” paradigm. Balls of Mud are particular and human, whereas Martian Crystal Palaces are faux-universal and alien.
I may just be stupid and short-sighted, but I feel that it might just be another expression of ‘Tower of Babel’ syndrome.
Having a local Kubernetes cluster is a long way from having a stack which allows seamless building of p2p apps which integrate with crypto. To Urbit's credit, it is pretty quick to build a non-trivial dapp.
No one knows. It *is* trying to be a fundamentally new primitive, how it will be used and whether it will be adopted is a completely different question. A lot of it revolves around owning your data, making it easy for everyone to spin up apps and hoping something new will come out of it. But fundamentally no one can tell you what is going to become of this personal server thing.
Just take the personal AI example from the article. Do you want all AIs to be trained and run on clouds or at least have a decentralized alternative?
I think I would prefer to be a later adopter. A lot of this does not inspire faith in me.
If you guys do happen to train an alien intelligence in a decentralized manner that costs less than buying the servers and running them, I would be quite impressed.
43 years in technology here. I like that people are trying to change the software development/hardware paradigm. This is where, beyond skill, blind luck or hubris, things happen. I won't denigrate them for sticking to a vision - in fact, I hope they achieve their goals. I could write several essays about how awful enterprise software is to write and maintain. I've done decades of it.
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In my jaded experience though, Urbit is reticent of a similar 'social' project in Arizona - Arcosanti. The urban experiment rode clouds of euphoric smoke, exhaled from young hippies high on weed and the excitement of sticking it "to the man" - that and not showering for weeks at a time. Maybe unlike Arcosanti, Urbit will turn out to be more than just a faded exit sign on a central Arizona highway.
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Please consider staying in touch with them and do a follow-up in 12 months.
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p.s. " Hoon, which is Urbit’s unique programming language." - You almost... almost, got me - a mouthful of coffee in close proximity to my Corsair keyboard. 'Hoon' is an affectionate term used in Australia to describe 'Hooligans' racing their cars, revving engines and making a general nuisance of themselves. 'Hoonigan' is the morphology of 'Hoon' and "Hooligan.' -- HA!
I have to look into the interconnectedness aspects further to space jam but can I add that Mars has Earthlings on the development side and it sounds like they are in setting up the colony, they won't have web3 problems with the nodes but it's interesting nonetheless.
Dude I want I came from the shire kinda sounding urbit name, some of the generated names after digging in more are cool af, I want to delve in so I'm reading up and it looks more promising than web3 structure wise based on how it's described. Good mind food. I want a Hobbit name, I know it says you can change it but the generated luck of the draw one seems more fun. Aside from all the other pros.
15 years ago Opera Unite made every browser a server, and it offered a functional and reliable and easy way to use messaging and file sharing services. Opera Unite achieved a functioning decentralized internet experience, and no one used it. Why in 20 years is Tlön still only offering a barely functioning beta release?
Like with all things, the devil is in the details. Messaging and file sharing is a long way from being able to build p2p apps. Likely Opera didn't at all simplify the developer experience (which is a big problem). Also, back then programmable blockchains didn't exist, so the timing might have been off as well.
It was a mistake to reinvent the wheel with new programming languages. Using existing tools would resulted in a popular and easily ported codebase, you would now have something that works
As someone who is somewhat grug-brained, I am constantly confused as to why I should prefer this solution to software centralization than running, say, a local Kubernetes Cluster and having all my Services/Dependencies exist on my private cloud.
I also am not sure about the “Martian, Good; Ball of Mud, Bad” paradigm. Balls of Mud are particular and human, whereas Martian Crystal Palaces are faux-universal and alien.
I may just be stupid and short-sighted, but I feel that it might just be another expression of ‘Tower of Babel’ syndrome.
Having a local Kubernetes cluster is a long way from having a stack which allows seamless building of p2p apps which integrate with crypto. To Urbit's credit, it is pretty quick to build a non-trivial dapp.
That is where I am confused. What is the killer application or feature that I must have? Why do I want crypto-integration into everything?
No one knows. It *is* trying to be a fundamentally new primitive, how it will be used and whether it will be adopted is a completely different question. A lot of it revolves around owning your data, making it easy for everyone to spin up apps and hoping something new will come out of it. But fundamentally no one can tell you what is going to become of this personal server thing.
Just take the personal AI example from the article. Do you want all AIs to be trained and run on clouds or at least have a decentralized alternative?
I think I would prefer to be a later adopter. A lot of this does not inspire faith in me.
If you guys do happen to train an alien intelligence in a decentralized manner that costs less than buying the servers and running them, I would be quite impressed.
Precisely how I use Obsidian notes.
Yes! Jurij is a gem, thanks for this conversation.
He was a pleasure to speak with. Very happy to share.
43 years in technology here. I like that people are trying to change the software development/hardware paradigm. This is where, beyond skill, blind luck or hubris, things happen. I won't denigrate them for sticking to a vision - in fact, I hope they achieve their goals. I could write several essays about how awful enterprise software is to write and maintain. I've done decades of it.
.
In my jaded experience though, Urbit is reticent of a similar 'social' project in Arizona - Arcosanti. The urban experiment rode clouds of euphoric smoke, exhaled from young hippies high on weed and the excitement of sticking it "to the man" - that and not showering for weeks at a time. Maybe unlike Arcosanti, Urbit will turn out to be more than just a faded exit sign on a central Arizona highway.
.
Please consider staying in touch with them and do a follow-up in 12 months.
.
p.s. " Hoon, which is Urbit’s unique programming language." - You almost... almost, got me - a mouthful of coffee in close proximity to my Corsair keyboard. 'Hoon' is an affectionate term used in Australia to describe 'Hooligans' racing their cars, revving engines and making a general nuisance of themselves. 'Hoonigan' is the morphology of 'Hoon' and "Hooligan.' -- HA!
Love this top image. Had never heard of this so very interesting.
I like the Mars vs Earth description of it. Piqued my interest as well as having learned something new today. Thanks for writing about this.
It’s quite the analogy when you consider the history of how online spaces have been built. What happens when the entire galaxy separates from itself?
I have to look into the interconnectedness aspects further to space jam but can I add that Mars has Earthlings on the development side and it sounds like they are in setting up the colony, they won't have web3 problems with the nodes but it's interesting nonetheless.
Dude I want I came from the shire kinda sounding urbit name, some of the generated names after digging in more are cool af, I want to delve in so I'm reading up and it looks more promising than web3 structure wise based on how it's described. Good mind food. I want a Hobbit name, I know it says you can change it but the generated luck of the draw one seems more fun. Aside from all the other pros.
This is one of the things Urbit got right. Especially useful to pique people's interest and keep them invested by giving them a unique, cool identity.
I can see the marketing aspect and value of it. I see why you called it infrastructure. Really cool interview.
15 years ago Opera Unite made every browser a server, and it offered a functional and reliable and easy way to use messaging and file sharing services. Opera Unite achieved a functioning decentralized internet experience, and no one used it. Why in 20 years is Tlön still only offering a barely functioning beta release?
Good question... Ithink we know why.
Like with all things, the devil is in the details. Messaging and file sharing is a long way from being able to build p2p apps. Likely Opera didn't at all simplify the developer experience (which is a big problem). Also, back then programmable blockchains didn't exist, so the timing might have been off as well.
Apparently it was pretty easy to create apps for opera unite : https://dev.opera.com/blog/a-close-up-look-at-developing-your-own-opera-unite-application/
It was a mistake to reinvent the wheel with new programming languages. Using existing tools would resulted in a popular and easily ported codebase, you would now have something that works
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TempleOS
I edited the interview to be as accessible as possible. We are just weirdos and nerds. As long as you understand the sentiment, though.